April 1, 2019 | 86 minutes, 22 seconds
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If you’re not familiar with John McDougall, MD, he is perhaps the most well-known leader in the vegan community. He is the author of 13 best-selling books (including The Starch Solution and The Healthiest Diet on the Planet) and has been preaching a high-starch, no-oil, vegan diet for 40 years. This podcast is a MUST-WATCH!
John McDougall, MD is a board-certified internist, licensed in 5 states. He is the author of 13 national best-selling books and the online “McDougall Newsletter,” and is co-founder of the 10-day, live-in McDougall Program in Santa Rosa, CA.
He is a clinical instructor for 4 schools training young physicians.
Other McDougall activities include seminars and health-oriented adventure vacations. Scientific results of the McDougall Program are published in the Nutrition Journal and in MS and Related Disorders.
National Bestselling McDougall Books:
- The McDougall Plan
- McDougall’s Medicine: A Challenging Second Opinion
- The McDougall Health Supporting Cookbook, Volume 1
- The McDougall Health Supporting Cookbook, Volume 2
- The McDougall Plan: 12 Days to Dynamic Health
- The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss
- The New McDougall Cookbook
- The McDougall Program for Women
- The McDougall Program for a Healthy Heart
- The McDougall Quick and Easy Cookbook
- Dr. McDougall’s Digestive Tune-up
- The Starch Solution
- The Healthiest Diet on the Planet
Podcasts with Dr. John Douillard, DC, CAP are dynamic, hour-long lectures blending ancient wisdom of Ayurveda with modern science!
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John A Mooter says
Mc Doughall is about common sense. He is amazing. I have met him many times. You do not see fat people promoting these low fat whole foods diets; in fact, Atkins, Sears and Fallon are all FAT.Every plant based doctor I know; Barnard, Esselstyn, Ornish, Klaper, Greger, all teach a plant based diet that excludes oil and unnecessary fats.
Will Berns says
You are deluded. Have you read anything? McDougall is the biggest Quack I have come across in a long time.
I Am Jack's Raging Bile Duct says
Dr. McDougall is nuttier than a fruit cake.
John A Mooter says
one of the smartest doctors of this era
I Am Jack's Raging Bile Duct says
Well, you’re entitled to your opinion…even if it’s wrong.
He and the rest of the popular vegan zealots likely mean well, but they are misguided.
Amber says
Dr. McDougall is a bit abrasive here, in contrast to the host, but what I got from his reactions was his frustration with the seemingly biased information the host was presenting. I did appreciate the host’s professional and kind demeanor throughout the process. There are many references here to McDougall being “imbalanced” according to Ayurveda terms (Ayurveda is not perfect either), but can the diets presented here or on other platforms that promote meat-eating claim to cure serious illness? That is what McDougall is doing. Read the testimonials on his website to see for yourself – his results should be more important to people than his personality. It’s true that McDougall doesn’t show a lot of kindness in his delivery, but his fiery disposition indicates to me that he is extremely concerned with the state of health in the American population. Both of these men are trying to help people but here we see a clash in personality and approach to health.
Stuart says
Gee. Mr McDougall’s interview didn’t do his Life’s Work justice.
John A Mooter says
baloney.He is the real deal
PC says
Wow. That was truly disturbing behavior by Dr. McDougall. He simply can not play nice with the other children unless they agree 100% in lockstep with him. In his interviews with Dr. Atkins and Jimmy Moore he shows similar behavior to this one. I have seen videos of his live seminars where he lashed out at members of the audience who asked him questions.
McDougall’s spiel sounds ok at first, but he can not stand up to the slightest scrutiny or debate. He will do or say anything to be evasive. Some have suggested that he was defensive. I think he was offensive.
I agree with the others who have suggested that he has dementia at this point and possibly knocked back a few drinks prior to this interview.
Alastair L says
@13:00 so this host is suggesting that we farmed grains but didn’t have any concept of storing grains?! We know for a fact that indiginous nations people in Australia were storing grains underground for large gatherings at latter dates for 10s of thousands of years. Farmed daisy yams too.
Read Dark Emu by Bruce Pascoe.
Nandarani says
I like what I read from Dr. McDougall, because I agree with it ;D: but… lifespa is a more recent discovery! Here, though, is something I just found: it’s research on longevity – longer lived people around the world – and says the opposite to the more protein as you get older concept: reduce protein, live longer, is the essence of the research. Okinawans: 10% of their diet is protein and they are long-lived. That is one example given in the article. Calorie reduction across the board is helpful for longevity but even more effective is simple reduction of protein, and particularly animal protein, the article says. Here it is: https://nutritionfacts.org/2015/06/16/living-longer-by-reducing-leucine-intake/
SO… my innate aversion rules in any case, about meat, and my prejudice toward grains remains as they are calming, for me, at least, the vata pacifying ones are.
Tom says
So tired of the finger being pointed in my face.
Stefania says
Dr. John,
I am so sorry you had to sit through this interview. My respect to you for being so gracious. I love your work. what you teach and how you lIve inspires me.
Antoinette says
I wholly agree with Stefania. You were wonderfully gracious, but it was impossible to listen to Dr. McDougall ranting; thus I fast-forward the last one-quarter. There is something seriously wrong with the good doctor’s behavior. Too much starch, perhaps?
John A Mooter says
too much truth.
Anna says
I listened to this as a podcast, and usually love Dr. Doulliard’s episodes, but I was out after 12 minutes of this one. I would’ve liked to hear Dr. McDougall’s point of view, but couldn’t take one more second of the interrupting and yelling.
Albrecht Schnabel says
Dear Dr. Douillard,
… thank you for the interesting interview with Dr. McDougall, free of charge!
Actually, I only watched the first ten minutes, but with great pleasure and, surely, at a profit, as I gained some valuable insights from hearing the opening statements of Dr. McDougall.
All in all, it seems to me, that some of the comments on Dr. McDougall personally are way below the belt, and do attack him in an inappropriate and dis-respectful manner that almost leaves one speechless and that he never deserves. We should ask ourselves: Who is without faults, and who does not err in life and in science from time to time? Some of the commentators of this interview really seem to forget that “let him who is without sin cast the first stone”, as the bible says.
Concerning your, Dr. Douillard’s, apparent (manifest) irritation with Dr. McDougall not solving the nutrition and diet “riddle” more and in a better way (and, maybe, once and for all), I would add: In my view, Dr. McDougall in his opening remarks in the first ten minutes is *very right* in pointing out, that “Science” is not objective any more (andy maybe never was), but biased, and economy-driven. Dr. McDougall is absolutely right in stressing this. *That* is the reason why we cannot hope to “learn” the real thing about nutrition through scientific studies, and you, Dr. Douillard, rightfully trying to “extract” such a knowledge from Dr. McDougall in this (lengthy) interview, *had* to be unsucessful and, hence, slightly or manifestly frustrated, as, I guess, was – at least in part – the case in the sequel of this interview. But not because of Dr. McDougall (or not mainly because of him), but because of the structure of “economic” Science nowadays.
To me, personally, a good-science book (though not very well-known) is “Death by Food pyramide” by Denise Minger. I, personally, also think that Dr. Josh Axe is a good health-doctor and probably healer who can teach us a lot about nutrition and health.
Sorry for improper style or slight mistakes in grammar, as my first language is German. I am, by the way, no “specialist”, but from another discipline, i.e. psychology.
Thanks again for your valuable time and diligent efforts and helpful knowledge, Dres. McDougall and Douillard!
Best wishes from Munich, Germany
Albrecht Schnabel.
Cross315 says
Wow! I’d be interested to know the make-up of his gut bacterias. He also fails to mention the arsenic in the rice and the GMO’s in our foods not to mention the depleted soil. If he did mention any of this it was lost in his rants. God put many beautiful and delicious foods in our planet to provide nutrition and health. I have also learned that a ‘one diet fits all’ doesn’t work. It is obvious to me, after this interview, that a high starch diet is not a good idea. Thank you Dr. John for your patience. I learned more from your composure than about nutrition.
Suzanne Leigh says
This interview is my first introduction to Dr. Douillard and healthspa. I give Dr. Douillard HUGE kudos for the gracious manner in which he conducted the interview, and for continually trying to introduce legitimate discourse despite the unwillingness of the guest.
Toward the end (yes, I kept watching…fascinated by the disintegration), Dr. McDougall revealed the bedrock of his ideology. He doesn’t allow for an inch of moderation because he, himself, can’t live in a world of moderation. He needs absolute adherence to his food rules, calls those rules ‘truth’, and everything outside those rules ‘poison’.
From a compassionate standpoint, I wonder if he’s suffering from an as-of-yet undisclosed illness.
Lisa Johnston says
I learned a lot and enjoyed the podcast. I feel I’ve emerged clearer about the conflicting research regarding which diet is best from a health perspective. Thank you Dr Douillard for all of your informative podcasts, and for introducing me to Dr. Mc Dougall.I look forward to checking out his website and books.
On another note, I am quite surprised by the judgement and rudeness of many of the comments. It calls to mind the idiom of the pot calling the kettle black….
Debbie says
I was out after 15 minutes. The name calling, bible referencing, overall the erratic behavior was too much. I was actually really interested to learn more about the vegan diet. I thought since John was conducting interview it might be informative and useful. No, I couldn’t get past his histrionics. Or maybe some of the other commenters were right – one too many cocktails before the interview.
lucille says
Man this guy was hard to listen too. John Douillard keep doing what you’re doing and thank you for being respectful and kind.
Carol says
This interview seriously calls into question the cognitive benefits of the McDougall diet. If you watch his presentations over the years, you will witness the gradual decline.
Amanda says
Its very frustrating that he’s so focused on avoiding studies that you’ve looked at and only talking about studies he’s looked at or remembers. Yes, lots of studies are funded by industry but what studies can we trust? This has been happening for a really long time. McDougall says he sites 20+ new studies in his new book but he won’t go into the studies that John talks about, so then there must be some studies that we can trust, right? He’s so interested in selling his way of dieting/living and totally closed off here. The interruptions and outbursts are embarrassing, I wonder if he will watch or listen to this again and feel bad for acting like this. I’m sure he’s a smart man, but the behavior alone is what makes him not relatable. He talks about how there are fat vegans and that’s why no one wants to be vegan, but he acts with so much disrespect how can anyone respect him?
About an hour in McDougal loses it because he gets so upset that John “promotes” eating meat and destroying the world. I agree people should eat less meat, but being a vegan just isn’t the most nutritious and its hard to comply with. He’s concerned about a few things, but mostly it sounds like he wants people to eat no meat for the Earth’s health, which is great and nothing is wrong with that. He just doesn’t want to admit that might not be the healthiest diet.
John talks about increasing starch in the fall and eating higher fat or fasting later in the year, not eating meat… but McDougall can’t get over that he thinks John is saying to eat high fat meats.. I just laugh! John doesn’t eat much meat at all so to me this just means McDougall has a closed mind.
He says people don’t do well with moderation, but thats not true. Some people can’t moderate and others do. McDougall says he eats meat 1 x every other year, but calls John out for eating meat or promoting eating meat. I just can’t even. I wanted to listen to the whole thing, it was hard but I did.
John A Mooter says
all o the plant based doctors are lean. Those that promote meat like Atkins, Fallon, Sears, Weil, are all or were FAT. I will stick with the plants.
I Am Jack's Raging Bile Duct says
“Lean” = weak, gaunt, and no vitality…all for the sake of a wacky ideology. They eat nutritionally inferior foods that are incomplete and far less bioavailable and take fistsful of supplements. What a deal. Not.
Marguerite says
This is a comment to Jim Long’s text:
Please do not judge raw meat eaters. The Inuit traditionally ate organic, plant-fed animals that had fantastic lives. The meat was most often uncooked and provided loads of vitamin C.
These people were happy and well adjusted, except in conditions of famine. I am sure they were nothing like Dr McDougal.
Donna Johnson says
Boy! Someone sure needs a nap. I can’t watch the whole thing. McDougall is so rude and pushy that he could never convince me to accept what he’s saying. He’s like a cranky two year old or a traveling Baptist preacher. I am embarrassed by his manner (and lack of manners). I myself don’t agree with everything John Douillard believes but I do enjoy listening to what he has to say and I do learn from him. As a healthy Vata I’m now going to go have a nice 4oz. chunk of healthy meat with my full plate of vegetables to help me forget what I just saw and heard. Unbelievable. Kudos to John for being so kind in the face of such ignorance.
Donatella says
Same comments as above, it was disturbing to watch/listen. Dr. McDougall’s demeanor was disrespectful, unprofessional and rude, and there is no excuse for such behavior from such an educated person. It was thought provoking and I will research starch-based diet; however, after watching the video I am concerned about the effects of a long-term vegan diet on the brain and human behavior. Additionally, I agree with respecting the life of animals, but one should also respect the life of other fellow human beings. Therefore, I would have expected a more respectful and compassionate interview with room for dialogue and not just lecture. Dr. Douillard: I admired your compassionate, patient, and tolerant demeanor throughout the interview. You are a gentleman. Thank you for your work, and for sharing your knowledge, your research, and helping us dispel doubts and confusion. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
Teresa says
Whatever you stand for Dr. John you thrive on it, you radiate on it, and it’s been a big success, and I’ll keep following your advice…it has always suited me!
Susan says
Despite the vata nature of Dr. McDougall, I enjoyed this interview. Much of the dietary, nutritional knowledge available is new over the last 50 years, ie enzymes, phyto nutrients and so there are many opionions on what is the best. Everyone is trying to find the perfect diet. I think what is true is that eating less meat is valuble to our planet (I’m a 30 year vegetarian) but there are variations on a theme. I don’t know that looking at pure science is the answer.Probably looking at different traditions based on where people live in the world would create more value along with tuning into how we feel. I loved Dr. Douillard’s eat wheat book and it inspired me to eat bread from a bakery that grinds their own flour and to start making kefir from raw milk. These are nutritional powerhouses. Dr. Douillard is my ayurvedic guru and ancient traditions are my grounding rod but I understand Dr. McDougall’s disgust and frustration with the world. Unfortunately, the West leans towards extremes and indulgence. This is the outcome of living in a society where abundance is the norm. Nature may take care of this as it revolts against humanity.
Richard Curtin says
Excellent thoughts
Brianne says
I am an avid follower of both Dr. Douillard and Dr. McDougall, so I was very excited to hear this interview. I am also an RN and an Ayurveda Practitioner, so I have an open mind to hearing opinions from differing viewpoints. I do follow Dr. McDougall’s starch based diet, and also incorporate my Ayurveda knowledge and many of Dr. Douillard’s recommendations into this. I have listened to countless lectures from Dr. McDougall, and have been beyond inspired by his words. He has debunked so many common medical issues from the treatment of breast and prostate cancers, to the true cause of chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. He has devoted his entire life to sifting through the vast medical research and finding the true, factual and valid research. He has changed countless lives and continues to do so today through his website, free webinars, and his 3 and 10 day programs in Santa Rosa. He has had some hard times the past couple of years with a bad fall when he had the flu, to losing his home to a wild fire in Santa Rosa and having to completely uproot his life to Portland. As an Ayurveda Practitioner, it is clear that he has a great vata imbalance in his vata time of life. He seems to have lived a very vata vitiating lifestyle with all of his travel and time to devoted to research, and I am guessing that he needs to pay more attention to eating more grounding and nourishing foods (which can easily be done within the confines of his starch based diet). He could most likely also do well with some external oil and oil massages. Anyway, that being said, I want to vouch for this man as one of the greatest pioneers for a plant based diet of our time, as well as, being a beacon for truth in the western medical world. Please visit his website and look on YouTube for his past lectures. He may not be the most aware person when it comes to energy or alternative practices, but he deserves the utmost respect for his contributions.
Brandy Baker says
Agree, yours is the most bang-on comment out of all I have seen on these forums (Youtube included).
John Newcomb says
Thank you. I agree that Dr. McDougall deserves tremendous respect for all he is done for humanity. We should pay more attention to what he is saying rather than judging him.
Patricia Perez says
I also agree. Thanks for your well thought out comment, rather than harshly judging a well known doctor who has done so much with his work and research in his life.
We need more of this tolerance, acceptance and understanding.
Yanina says
Dc Mcgougall is loosing his mind. His eye movements are of a person who is not in control of his brain. I notice a lot of this behavior on raw vegan people who have no balance in their body. This to me proves the point that we are seasonal eaters. How embarrassing the behavior of a 72 years old who supposed to pass wisdom to the younger generations. Dc Douillard you did an amazing job!! The best thing is that this interview prove me that yes we need 10 percent good quality animal protein and seasonal eating. We are killing the planet by químical pollution and mismanagement of resources, not by eating meat. I believe in living with the cycles of life! We give to the planet, but we also take from the planet! This is what every part of the ecosystem does!
I believe that is the balance life. Dc McDougall Also does not read the Bible and misrepresents the message that it is saying, Daniel was not vegetarian at all. There are feast in the Bible where 7 times a year they celebrate and in same of them they eat meat. He was a hebrew who keep the instruction of the Bible, he could not be a Vegan!
We could all learn from each other perspectives if the pride doesn’t take over!
Kent Rempel says
I enjoyed the content, but I wanted to hear what you had to say a little bit more. I had to stop listening because I couldn’t handle the rudeness of Dr. McDougall… extremely painful to watch him shut down anything you had to say before you even said it.
Mary Sheila Gonnella says
Wow, that was explosive. I respect his perspective, but as a practicing Nutrition Consultant and Ayurvedic Practitioner, not everyone thrives on a vegan diet. Our Vikruti can be so imbalanced, some people can’t handle as much starch and need the nutrients from the variety of what humans have always eaten, which includes animal fats and proteins. These foods can help to bring us back into balance. And of course the way we are raising livestock is deplorable, and changing that practice would have incredible ripple effects for the planet and its people.
jasmin olpinski kopiec says
As a vegan myself, thank you Dr. Douillard for your humbleness. PERIOD!
Barbara Sinclair says
I couldn’t help but feel that I was witnessing balanced Pitta energy (you, Dr. John) and unbalanced Pitta energy (Dr. McDougall). That Pitta fire that sparks so much intelligence and passion in someone can become insufferable when it turns to righteousness, sarcasm, and unwarranted anger. I could barely make it through the interview, feeling his anger through the computer. Kudos to you, Dr. John for keeping your cool!
judy says
Like so many others, I have only admiration for how you conducted yourself, Dr. John. While Dr. McDougall was insufferably judgmental and trashed moderation, distrustful of people’s abilities to control themselves, you modelled Ayurveda’s graciousness, acceptance and respect for people’s differing ways of being in the world. Like Dr McDougall, my father was well-meaning, passionate and a know-it-all. He ate red meat, cheese, drank wine, delivered babies and told parents how to raise their children because he believed he knew best. At 65 he had a severe stroke and lived for 20 more years, unable to speak. I so appreciate the kindness and respect you offered as well as the strength to hold your ground. I could have used your modelling growing up. Bravo to you, Dr. John, and thank you for wise, heartfelt offerings.
smilodon says
I don’t care how learned, respected, knowledgeable and famous anyone is, there should be NO TOLERANCE for behaviour as vulgar as McDougall’s. But across society we hold up men who behave like this as great, admirable leaders. No wonder McDougall was fired. He should not be received by any group, organization, or institution until he does a massive u-turn in behaviour and years of mea culpas. Also, I found many of his statements were anecdotal and not citing studies like Dr. John. He put far too much emphasis on what other researchers look like.
margaret says
Couldn’t watch it all. Having him continually pointing with his right hand index finger, he obviously doesn’t understand about energy.
Barbara Davies says
Dr. McDougall is only 72, so he says, but he sounds and looks lots older, and us also is rude, self important and “explosive” as some of my clients who have early stage dementias. He has been a wonderful forerunner to the world of vegan, organic eating and healing. He has contributed so much, but he is losing his grip on being a responsible communicator. Rude and holier-than-thou. He is now “past it”…so sad. His family needs to step in with him and keep him from embarrassing himself and his legacy. Time to retire and let the grandchildren fill his happy end-of-life days.
Barbara Davies says
I want to amend my previous comment. McDougall has a lot of great points about the medical journals b being “owned” by big chemical & corporate food industries, that the sea is severely depleted, and so much more, but he is still a rude raver. No excuse for that.
John says
I worry about John McDougall’s mental health. He is acting like a crazy person: yelling, gesturing wildly, and being very confrontational. Great job, Dr. Douillard.
Gareth Wareham says
Sorry but I could only watch about 20 mins of this as Dr Macdougall has portrayed himself as a very rude man. Shame on him.
Dr Douillard however showed himself to be in control of himself and hardly faced at all. He is a gentleman,
Gareth
Julia Pace says
Poor Dr. McDougal – disinhibited, rude, arrogant – he needs B12 and some good fat to help with his cell signaling. I wonder if he has what has been referred to as a copper personality due to lack of zinc.You were a prince, Dr. John. I couldn’t finish listening after about the fourth “excuse me,” and the persistent lack of respect for a fellow professional. I know he has had a rough few years – being burned out in California, retiring – I respect his contribution to our general health but he is now in his declining years. Again, you were a picture of grace, Dr. John.
Michelle Dubian says
I just don’t understand how Dr McDougall’s number one argument is that we have mostly eaten grains throughout history while at the same time saying that we could smoke two packs of cigarettes and drink a bottle of whiskey and survive. My question is “did we trive” while we were eating mostly grains? And I am being very sincere here and would love to hear the answer. Dr McDougall gives the examples of people wanting to hear that their favorite foods are just being “oked” by studies and research. Well my favorite foods are sweet potatoes, russet potatoes, rice and corn and quinoa. I love all starches. I gave up gluten Because I have thyroid problems and miss it terribly but am trying to heal my thyroid right now.
June Drucker says
Not sure how you kept you cool with him. You are a knowledgeable, polite, kind and caring man. Probably shouldn’t use the words to describe your guest. Even if he has something worthwhile to say it would be hard to take him seriously with his obnoxious delivery.
Paula Warner says
oh my..yikes,this is not the dr.mcdougal,i have heard/seen in the past…very upsetting to my heart to watch!!!!
he must be totally unaware of your fabulous book EAT WHEAT which you explain so wonderfully the idea of why wheat sensitivities occurs, and no one assuming the problem is the wheat was asking WHY we can’t digest it! thank you, thank you, dr. douillard, for asking the right questions — and finding answers!!. dr. mcdougal needs to read your book..you are very much on same page..if he would just LISTEN..agree with tracy you had amazing gentleman strength of mind and heart… to get through this interview! painful to watch
Tara says
Mcdougall admits to being ‘Black and white’ on the issue as a way of bringing controversy, attention and for people to LEARN. Yes he was incredibly rude, which i actually laughed out loud in disbelief, but he has a point about all the studies pointing towards supporting industries. His fanaticism comes from utter frustration that the livestock industry is destroying the planet, and if we don’t start radically changing with NO excuses it’s too late. I applaud Dr Douillard’s restraint and humility, but I also respect Dr Mcdougalls passion. ??????Thanks
Hollus Gessler says
I thank Dr. Douillard for his commitment to research and trying to bring all angles to the table. However, I could not watch this podcast. Dr. McDougall lost any respect from me the minute he started becoming extremely unprofessional and negative regarding other doctors and authors. I was expecting somebody that was comfortable with his beliefs and research and not insulting and combative. I have been vegan and also raised on the Mediterranean diet. My husband was more willing to actually consider veganism after reading nutritionist Jae Steele’s “Get it Ripe” and by working with your detox, seasonal eating because you both have a nurturing approach allowing for broader understanding by being allowed to explore better nutrition then being verbally and mentally abused for not committing to a specific philosophy.
Patti Bealer says
Too bad, there could have been some really good discussion there. I agree that there are a lot of “junk food vegans” that don’t represent their cause very well. I would have been more interested in what Dr Douillard was trying to focus on, whether the “science” is accurate on both sides, or if there is a logical resolution to the differences. Passion without logic doesn’t really persuade too many, and it doesn’t appear to have impressed a lot of listeners. More respect to Dr Douillard!
Bettina says
Vegetables have feelings too….Period! Lol
Orly says
I am so surprised that you allowed him, to be soooo rude and Full of his own importance !!!!
What happened to grace , humanity and kindness . I would have hated to
Be his kid ?
Thank you for showing a proper conduct of your mannerism – you are people start – Dr Douillard???
Mary Brown says
I think Dr M needs some animals protein to restore his B12 and neurological reserves. Way too anxious, which is what I see with people that have been on a vegan diet too long. Dr John you are quite gracious. Thank you for all you do. An inspiration.
Judith D. says
Yes, I agree with most of the above comments. I was also shocked to see him so physically aged and frail. He definitely does not look well. Like he says first of all “I look the person if I want to follow his recommendations”. I was said to see him being so erratic in his behavior He used to be such a handsome, brilliant man. Something is wrong with him. Dr Doulliard was so patient, courteous and I do not blame him ‘laying a little low’ and just trying to appease him as much as he could. His calmness was so amazing, ” inside the eye of storm he was so quiet and peaceful”.
Claire says
Oh my, Dr. McDougall perhaps you should have some fat because it be good for your brain!! I’m sorry I think you owe an apology for your derogatory demeanor towards Mr. Doulliard. You discounted your own testimony because of your attitude and tone.
Nick says
Wow…
Dr. Doullaird, I am amazed with your patience and continued attempts to engage this individual in a meaningful and respectful manner. While it’s possible that Dr. McDougall’s ideas are sound, his message is completely buried by the sludge of his enormously arrogant, vitriolic, and self-aggrandizing personality.
I am, however, going to watch this again, both as an exercise in composure and an attempt to glean some useful information from Dr. McDougall’s decades of experience and research, despite his seeming derangement.
Hollus Gessler says
Thanks Nick for your enlightenment. I will try and re-watch it too. Your compassion and insight have convinced me that there should be a thread of some message to learn.
Marcie Dlin says
I agree! I couldn’t tear myself away from this interview. And I’m so thankful that Dr. Doulliard didn’t cut it off sooner. He let this man (wherever he is in his “journey”) go on and on and listened for the nuggets of wisdom. He truly wanted to learn something! He didn’t take McDougall’s ranting personally. And I didn’t either. I found myself having extreme compassion for Dr. McDougall. (Call me crazy, too!) I don’t know that much about him, so I don’t feel qualified to judge him based on this interview alone. I’m assuming that after years of dealing with people telling him he’s crazy, he feels free to act that way. Or maybe he is experiencing some mental….uh…He obviously has lost his….filter….yeah that’s it.
Who knows? If you listen carefully, he reveals some interesting things about the medical profession. His high starch, low fat diet would never suit me. The Ayurvedic lifestyle has always made the most sense to me. And has a lot of variety. Thankfully, we all have the ability to try different foods and see what works for us. No doctor has all the answers. Compassion is the key. And Dr. Doulliard is a shining example of that. Thank you, sir, for all you have done and all you do! And I love this community. Thank you all for your comments. Peace!
Anna Marie says
What was that? Thank you Dr. John for your composure and grace throughout that interview. I would love to know how he is eating the food he is so passionate about. Something seems unbalanced?
Simone says
You are amazing Dr. Douillard. I have no idea how you stayed so respectful and on point for this interview. So sad that Dr. McDougal was so relentlessly disrespectful and so offbase. I am so grateful for you and all that you share and hold you in high esteem. You are a blessing in this world.
Liz McKinley-Gordon says
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT — BOTH Dr. John and Dr.Mc Dougal… THANK YOU! ~LizzieMac
Nia says
Dr. Mc Dougal is absolutely right, I wish we would have doctors like him all over.
He is speaking his truth for people’s benefits. you are free to choose, if you .killing yourself with spoon then of course you won’t like it.
I need to clean up my diet after listening to him
thank you
Lisa Carnicom says
So very disheartening to listen to one of my longtime heroes speak in such a manner. I still respect much of his work and what he has done for the conversation about diet. A whole foods diet does not cause this sort of mood disorder, as there are many possible explanations (I’ve been researching mood disorders in the mature demographic cohort). But this does call our attention to our need/desire to be attentive to the mental and emotional health choices we make (which you address regularly).
Dr. Douillard, you showed exemplary patience and GRACE (I agree with what many of your viewers have commented here). Equipoise is more important than diet, in terms of epigenetics and how we affect others. I always look forward to what you have to say and write. I appreciate you immensely. Many blessings to you and your family 🙂
Nancy says
I attended a Vegan and Animal Rights conference in Wash. DC about 6-7 years ago where Dr. McDougall talked about his book on the Starch Solution. He was fairly abrasive as he delivered his talk, but when I passed his table afterwards I still wanted to thank him for his insights, etc. It was impossible to have any discussion because I was met by his family members who glared at me as though I was a hooker trying to solicit from him. Haha.
Just a little anecdote, but my view of him doesn’t vary from any of the above comments. Why be that way?? It’s as though he’s eaten only a strict diet of red meat his entire life–there’s nothing peaceful there.
Yogini25 says
Wow, that was hard to listen to/watch. Dr Douillard was very patient and courteous to this guy and I am amazed that he was able to glean anything of use out of this interview. But I lost interest when 10% of M&Ms was equated to 10% of steak.
Sheila Montoya says
yes, the man would’ve been farmer effective if he didn’t act so unhinged!
Kathleen says
I first would like to commend Dr John on his amazingly well composed and patient demeanor. I love you even more for that. I’m a sinsere fan of your teaching. This is an example of how you practice what you preach. Dr Mc Dougall however was off the wall. I have read only one of his books and found it interesting but it made me wonder if our ansestors ate starch based diets because that was all they had. I know that children in the high mountains of Peru are deficient in vitamins because all they have to eat are potatoes. Anyway I do agree with Dr Mc Dougall in the fact we have to trace back to who and where some of these “studies” are coming from. I’m always suspicious of the “money trail”. I think the interview would have been tolerable if Dr Mc Dougall would have calmed down.
Again Dr John…. you rock!
margi says
Well said. I agree. And dr. John’s composure was striking and inspiring! phew, alot to hear and take in.
Susan George says
Oh my! I was looking forward to hearing some dialog on reasoning for all the different diets and was surprised at the inability of Dr. McDougall to be objective and gracious. I had to stop listening as the rant of Dr. McDougall was intolerable. You are so kind Dr. Douillard!
Pam says
I’m really not sure why anyone would listen to this man! Like everyone said he’s rude, arrogant, obnoxious, and acted like he was drunk! Even if he has good things to say I would never listen to him or his advice.
For me, I’m sticking to the 3-season diet! I think it has a much more balanced approach to eating. Thank you Doctor Douillard for all that you bring for our consideration.
I will continue to follow your plan which I feel is God’s plan, after all it was Him who set up the seasons!
Gregory Ashby says
There is something out of balance with this man.
I received the same rudeness years ago after commenting
on post he made. Your own personal diet should be something
that brings who peace not anger. There is an old saying that says,
“Would You rather be Happy or Right” An attitude of rightness only
shows an imbalance in ones life.
Boy to see his Medical Records.
Lori L Dunne says
WOW how rude and arrogant. Never heard him (McDougall) talk before. Not impressed at all. Must have been hard to remain controlled.
Alice says
Pure Arrogance
Portia says
I laughed out loud a few times too and I’m so grateful Dr JD kept his cool . I don’t think Dr Mac was drunk, he was just passionate, heard it all before, too clever, sick of ppls excuses. He has bad listening skills that’s for sure. But sometimes the older ppl get the more quirky and passionate they become. Whatever annoying habit they have it will get worse. He is at the point in his life where he doesn’t give a crap what ppl say anymore because he has dealt with many in the medical field who are afraid to step on toes.
Despite it being a very uncomfortable interview, I did learn from it for sure! I also believe that despite eating seasonally, we need to consider our genetic makeup and what our ancestors ate for generations. Those whose ancestors ate mostly rice will not get fat from it, but those not used to it over the generations might put on weight. Just like dairy affects African Americans badly, because Africans didn’t eat much dairy, maybe some goat milk. Anyway just consider your genetics before changing to a new diet, everyone is different. Those darn hunters were so hopeless, they just wanted an adventure ?
Jim Long says
I want to express what I was feeling under the hurricane after some reflection.
At first, I was bothered by the sheer barrage of his rudeness, his ranting, his belligerent put downs of other people – and research – that didn’t align with his notion of reality.
I don’t know what’s going on in his life, but from his behavior, his emotions, his rigidity of thought, I believe that something is very out of balance.
A truly healthy lifestyle should lead to greater expansion – not narrowness; greater flexibility – not rigidity; greater spiritual unity – not acrimony.
I don’t know if a life of eating mostly starch causes these imbalances over time (I’m guessing it probably does) but his “manner of being” makes me seriously question the validity of being vegan – especially long term.
Finally, kudos to Dr. Douillard. You displayed grace, generosity, intelligence and resilience in the face of a real-time challenge. You are a wonderful example of how a balanced lifestyle looks in real life.
Namaste
Gregory Ashby says
Well said
Namaste
Rae says
Thank you for putting my thoughts in to words so eloquently. I was still recovering from being creeped out and wondering if I should hurry and cook up a grass-fed/finished steak
Donna says
I agree with most of the others. I only lasted 15 minutes! I doubt Dr Mc Dougal will take the time to read the comments and accept responsibility that the majority of us felt he acted poorly and did not represent himself well to convince anyone to consider anything he was saying. I know some others who are very knowledgeable and passionate about their subject matter but no one listens or wants to be around them because of the way they act and their lack of listening skills.
Love your work, your passion and the way you present it, care and respect others Dr Douillard. You offered a gracious example of treating someone as you wish to be treated. Thank you………
Joseph Lucier 20 year vegan says
Kudos big time to Dr Douillard for your humble manner and patience. McDougall is so knowledgable, but his intolerance is unacceptable. No matter what kind of diet you follow, compassion and tolerance is necessary in all lifestyles, and the main point is, to be informed with the truth and common sense but above all, understand that all humans are sacred and deserve our respect.
Joe
Vacheslav says
Peace, i’m not going to give myself the right to judge others like most here did, and accusing him of being drunk is because a drunk unwillingly says the truth so that how when you tell the truth you will be surrounded by stupid slanderers, now to more details, the wireless headphones is a big no no … you would think by over 70 years you would research the dangers of wireless, instead of jumping on the band wagon of the stupid majority…next bashing the Mediterranean diet was an erroneous deed, and i’m going to bring proof to the table! I know someone who was living in the Mediterranean and moved the hell hole socialist north, were he decided to seize eating meat to influence his obese girl friend to become healthy again..the difference was, before the hell hole move, the diet was mainly salads, fruit, beans, lentils, peas, thyme, cheese, and of course meat, the it transformed into salads, fruit, potatoes, apples, honey.. there was no one anymore to cook beans for him..the Result: in just 2 years, the right shoulder started aching, he thought well that must be because it is because i use the mouse with my right hand, so he switched to the left one..the constant pain continued for 3 more years, and the pain killer creams wouldn’t help. At last, he read about chiropractors.. so he visited one, and within a month he suddenly noticed the pain was gone.. but it would return after and a new visit to the chiropractor would be needed, where the professional noticed that the neck was skewed, which the chiropractor wondered why.. it took almost 3 more years to discover that it is the fats in the belly that was developed through the constant ketosis that was skewing the neck (hard to believe, but the truth is mostly like that) so the protein deficiency progressed until the shoulder pain developed to dizziness and tongue swelling… that was going on for another year while the now a wife was waiting for him to die, inevitably he was admitted to a hospital, after which the original disease seamed like a blessing 🙂 Then it hit him, one must not eat meat if a loved one is unable to stop eating meat, not if an enemy won’t withhold himself, it would be betrayal to his infants! do you understand what is a legitimate reason to become vegetarian? as you might have noticed, the vegans who are like that in order to save the planet, are always fascist nazis.. no wonder Hitler was a vegetarian! I still don’t know anyone who loves animals who is not bitter on humans!
Anyway the problems started receding after 1 year of constant meat eating, after which he got incarcerated, because of parents that like most of you thought he was “Drunk”! Anyway, that incarceration was in the Mediterranean, so he was back on the awesome diet, it was only lacking bananas and honey, anyway, the day they had burgers was the next day with no excretion.. it has been almost 5 months now, that the symptoms appeared, much thanks to the homeopath! what aided in discrediting Dr. Dougllas was, the as usual, “million of years fairy tale”, but what enhanced his credibility, was the Daniel story in the bible! What discredits Dr. John and of course most of you is FLATTERY! that’s way evil!
Jim Long says
You may want to look at the first sentence you wrote . . . then re-read your post.
Paula Warner says
right on!! jim
Robyn says
Very interesting way of not judging – LOL!
Labell says
I have no idea what this person is saying or trying to say
Kat says
I think that Dr. McDougall might have snapped. He made me laugh quite a bit as he is crazy and could be the mad scientist. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to work with him. He needs listening skills.
Dr. Douillard, you were exemplary in your composure. A+++
Holly says
Well, that was entertaining….what’s up with Dr. McDougal? Hard not to take what he says with a grain of salt considering his demeanor. John, you kept your cool!
Michelle says
Geez this was exhausting to listen to. I commend Dr Doulliard for his equilibrium and maintaining his composure – something that eludes Dr McDougall. He was rude, angry, and combative. He does not leave room for any information other than his own.
Darren rettie says
We are not familiar with this doctor however if he had something valuable to say it was negated by his terrible demenour towards all of human kind. It is so unkind to lump people together in such a derogatory manner. He may be famous, learned, wealthy.. all of those things but he needs to ask himself if he is good and kind, these are the things that matter in the end. Dr. John we value and honour your opinion and knowledge however if you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything. This gentlemen may be your mentor but perhaps you need to make a statement of your feelings in regards to the way he treated you? His rants and insulting rambling should have been cut off and told to go packing. We appreciate varied discussions, but this fellow acted like a fruitbat and did not deserve your patience.
Brenda Burger says
I appreciate listening to this interview.
I agree with Dr McDougall about the destruction of our planet happening right now. I totally believe we should not eat any animal flesh. I’m healthy and eat a starch based diet. I also appreciate you Dr Doulliard’s, your free information, your passion to help raise human consciousness and all else you do for humans.
Blessings to all.
Namaste
Brenda
Rosilene says
OMG Dr Douillard, I feel so bad for you to have to talk to an extremely rude, soberb and annoying creature like this McDougall. You deserve the nobel prize for not loosing your patience, I would not be able to do that . I bet you went right to your meditation practice to get rid of all the stress. It just made me admire you even more than I have always already. You are a charm, shame on him and God bless you Dr. Douillard.
Cynthia says
You have the patience of a saint.
I just smiled as I listened.
Thank you
Cynthia
Sandy says
Wow, congratulations on being able to maintain such a calm demeanour while being put through his horrible interruptions, insults and half assed compliments.
I have been watching several of his interviews in the last few weeks and I must say I am shocked by his behaviour. He sees things as black and white like he said and has zero room for anything that isn’t exactly what he preaches and believes.
If this is the result of following his diet of 90% starch, then no thank you! I will follow your advice Dr. John Douillard any day in favour of his.
Oh and I might also mention that he doesn’t look healthy and vibrant like you do. Yes he is thin, but I also suspect much of that is lack of muscle mass from years and years of low protein and high starch.
Rosilene says
I totally agree, he looks terrible and sounds terrible too. He should take some B12 to calm his patetic brain. Dr Douillard shows in his face vibrance and health , which is a result of what he preaches and practice, even though the rude guy did not let him speak, we know who we should follow.
Melinda says
Well after reading the replies I’m totally committed to deleting this free podcast. The last conversation we need is another hostile one by an arrogant conflictual man. Sorry all.
andy says
Dr McDougall rants exactly like an old friend of mine from years ago, and also kinda like a favorite drunk uncle. I had to laugh out loud several times as I watched, because it’s funny, partly intended to be, but partly not. Anyway, good points to consider and I will check out his website to get a better idea of his approach and concepts. Thanks, John, for the notice that this was available… it was good entertainment while I was preparing supper…. which was, by the way, all plant based…. oops, except for the aged gouda cheese…
Vicki says
Dude you should for go the booze, hard to take anything he says seriously
Well done John for being able to navigate through what must have been a difficult interview.
JJ Clark says
I had to step away from the rude rants as well. I think his diet may have crossed some wires in his brain. Dr. Douillard I apologize for this man’s rudeness toward you.
Debbie says
I did not enjoy this podcast. This is the first time, I’ve seen such an arguable person, instead of giving some good advice. Very hard to follow and enjoy.
Jim Long says
After 10 minutes I got so turned off with his rude rant I called it quits. It’s sad, because I really wanted to learn more about the vegan lifestyle and pass it on to my clients (I’m a health practitioner). I’m afraid if they heard Dr. McDougal they would be turned off of veganism forever. He acts more like someone who eats raw meat.
Peg says
I agree. Passion is important when it comes to one’s belief in something as important as nutrition. What is not welcome is an insulting patronizing response from a passionate person, no matter how much data they have to support their argument.
Dr. McDougal would be better off, and would probably get more people to listen, if he was more respectful of other’s opinions.
Tracy Graves says
Wow- Dr. Douillard you have the patience of a Saint– I would say that Dr. McDougalls manor is not a very positive support for his diet :-0 Maybe a little protein is needed for mental stability and grounding .
Samia says
Yup! He was welcomed so graciously, and yet behaved so unprofessionally.
I love animals and don’t eat them, but I am very much aware of the problems that can come from a long-followed vegan diet and if a bit of meat, cheese or egg once in a while will clear that up, that is okay. Our Creator understands.
Yes, we are starch eaters. So what – that does not mean our ancestors did not also eat some animal products (fat and protein).
Dr. McDougall’s performance here = Orthorexia in action. Physician, heal thyself.
If I was Dr. Douillard, I would have cut this guy off at the pass.
sukhraj gipple says
After 30 minutes of this I just couldn’t watch anymore. It’s hard to see a smart man like him w such a good message be so angry and obviously drunk. I think you were kind and accepting but wondered why you didn’t end the podcast.
Dre says
Hard to watch. I’ve been vegan for over 10 years and never knew Dr. McDougal was so fanatical. It would have been good for home to simply engage in reasonable discourse.
karen says
Agreed! I was looking forward to a dialog…
Dr. Douillard, you were obviously well prepared and open minded going into this interview and you must be commended for maintaining your composure, integrity, and respect for Dr. McDougall. It was, however, entertaining and thought-provoking and it will live on in my memory, too!
Thank you for your fine work!